Avremiel

It is with great sadness that I write about this issue. I know the family and I respect the great Talmid Chacham that is his father. In fact let me say a bit about this huge Talmid Chacham. He wrote, and later published (in 1965) a Sefer on Mikvaos entitled “Mei Me-Ayin”. It has approbations from the following people: Rav Yitzchak Zev HaLevi Soloveitchik (The Brisker Rav), Rav Issar Zalmen Meltzer, R Eliezer Yehuda Finkel, and Rav Tzvi Pesach Frank.

He is a holocaust survivor from Lodz, Poland and a Gerrer Chasid. He was one of those who spent most of the war years in Shanghai with Talmidim of the Mir. He is also a very successful businessman here in Chicago... an honored man. Back in the seventies was asked by the Mikva association to be on their Halacha committee, along with Telzer Rosh HaYeshiva, Rav A.C. Levin, and Rav Aaron Soloveichik, when they were building a new “state of the art” Mikva facility in West Rogers Park. He turned them down. Why he turned them down is the rest of the story.

His name is Harav Yitzchok Mondrowitz. If that name sounds vaguely familiar it is probably not because of his Sefer but because of his son, Avrohom.

Avrohom Mondrowitz is a wanted man. The United States government, through the Brooklyn district attorney's office is seeking his extradition from Israel on sex charges: Four counts of Sodomy; eight counts sexual abuse.

I knew this fellow. We were in Telshe together. We are about the same age and were in the same Shiur there. His friends and family called called him Avremiel. He was always an upbeat person with a completely positive attitude toward Judaism. He was very careful in his Mitzva observance, and he learned well. And was well thought of by his Rebbeim. He is about the last person one would associate with sex abuse.

I left Telshe after tenth grade. The next time I saw him he was married, living in Chicago, and had become much closer to Ger, adopting all of their Minhagim, including the Levush… their style of dress, Shpoduk (Gerrer style Shtreimel) and all. My father davened in the same Sheeble with his father, Rav Yitzchok, who used to give Shiurim there. It was Rabbi Perlow’s Shteeble (The Novominsker Rebbe) before he moved to New York.

I saw Avrohom there occasionally, always smiling, always making others smile. After living in Chicago for a few years in the early seventies, he moved to Brooklyn so he could live in more of a Ger-style community which was practically non-existent in Chicago back then. I lost touch with him.

A few years later I saw an ad in the Jewish Press aimed at children with psychological problems: “Psychology Al Pi Halacha” it said, listing Dr. Avrohom Mondrowitz as the psychologist who would provide therapy… and it gave his phone number. I remember thinking, how wonderful that this Chasid that I knew… with an upbeat personality had gone to college, received a degree in psychology and was now treating young children with emotional problems.

Boy… was I ever wrong! It wasn’t quite that wonderful. It was in fact a shocking horror story that was then, of unheard of proportion.

I am told by various sources that he had no real degree. It was entirely made up… or it was one of those phony baloney ones you can buy. I don't really know. But in any case,instead of providing therapy for children with emotional problems he was causing permanent psychological damage to… who knows how many… children. He had found a way draw into seclusion and sexually abuse many victims. And he had the best cover one could devise, in case of being accused of wrongdoing: These were sick children! He has denied and continues to deny all charges. But the evidence is overwhelming. He realized that and “skipped town”. Ever since the early eighties he has been living in Israel.

This is real tough one for me to understand. He was from the best of families… well to do …Yerei Shamyim. He had a brilliant Talmid Chacham for a father, a real role model. His mother was a working registered nurse. And he had a younger brother who is wonderful human being with a family of his own. Outwardly Avrohom was a paragon of virtue, but secretly he was an uncontrollably perverted man who violated major Issurim in the Torah continuously for many years and hurt many people in the process.

I do not know if his wife and his many children are still a part of his life. I can only imagine the kind of terrible emotional pain they must constantly be in. I know his parents have not shown their faces in public ever since the story broke in the mid eighties. They are broken people. What a human tragedy it is for so many people... his family, his parents, his brothers, and most of all his victims.

Why do I bring this up now? Because this coming Monday, October 9th at 11:35 p.m. E.D.T he will be featured on ABC’s Nightline in the context of Sexual Abuse in the Jewish Community. I don’t know how they are going to present it, but Rabbi Mark Dratch of JSafe, will appear on the program to talk about it. I urge all those who are able, to watch the program. It should be quite informative.

New Update:

I have been informed that the date of the ABC broadcast has yet again been changed from Thursday, October 5th to Monday, October 9th.

Aping the Goyim

Aping the Goyim. I just saw this expression in the comments section of another blog. It is often used when someone on the right is giving Mussar about some aspect of secular culture he has detected taking hold in his own community. And it is one of the biggest turn-offs for me whenever I hear it. It is almost a challenge to go and do exactly what it is that the individual is protesting.

This expression is indicative an attitude that is anathema to me. Aside from the fact that it unfairly characterizes all non Jews in an automatically stupid and evil light, it also casts all their behavior that way. This is clearly wrong. But aside from this obviously misleading and terrible message I want to focus on anther point.

If one analyzes the meaning behind it one can clearly see that the phrase "Aping the Goyim" is a pejorative against anything secular. This is ingrained in a particular mindset that eschews any activity that one may enjoy that is not in specifically a Torah based activity. Using such language subliminally reinforces this belief amongst those who hear it… those who throughout their lives have been indoctrinated to believe that all of western culture is evil.

And in my view doing it this way is far more effective and therefore worse than just being direct about it. Why? Because it enters the unconscious mind and influences attitudes without any analytical thought. By labeling an activity as “Aping the Goyim”, the image implanted in the mind is a very negative one. Not only that it is Assur, but that it is stupid! And no matter how innocent, participating in it is to looked at as ape-like! Because only a subhuman primate is dumb enough to follow such a custom without really thinking about it! All this in a subliminal message.

So I am here to yell and scream about it. …To counter the notion that participating in activities that non-Jews participate in is not stupidly “aping the Goyim”. It is just enjoying that part of western culture that one is permitted to engage in. …To tell people to stop thinking of activities that are not in the Torah but permitted by Halacha as stupidly aping non-Jews. That is not what one is doing by enjoying a culturally western based activity. And to not listen to the false Hochacha of saying that anything non-Jewish is stupid.

Of course we know that we should not participate in cultural activities that are Assur. No one should run out to MacDonald’s and buy a cheeseburger and fries. But for those things that are Mutar, just because one first saw a non-Jew doing it does not mean we are stupidly copying them if we want to do the same thing. Not at all. We are simply enjoying an activity that we learned about through living in, and observing western behavior. It is arrogant to so derisively use this term. Those who do so, mockingly dismiss permissible behavior by labeling it stupid. Well, if aping is stupid then the uniformity of dress that exists in the world of the right is just as stupid. One is merely substituting one kind of “aping” for another.

Besides, what constitutues “Aping the Goyim” anyway? Is wearing a suit and tie “aping the Goyim”? If not, then neither is anything else we learned from western culture as long as it does not violate Halacha.

So, if for example one wants to enjoy the music of the Beatles, go to a baseball game or a symphony concert, or wear the latest fashions in clothing, or participate in any of what western culture has to offer, as long as it is Halachicly acceptable one ought to not be made to feel guilty about it.

And expressions like “Aping the Goyim” ought to be eliminated from our lexicon.

Catchy Tunes for the Yamim Naraim

I love Sholomo Carlebach’s music. I even enjoy the music composed by Mordechai Ben David and many of the other Jewish musical compositions. I listen to it all the time. I hum to it and even sing along with it in my car. But when it comes to adapting their melodies to the Yomim Noraim …well, let’s just say that I am not a fan of that.

In the last decade or two there has been a trend to incorporate various popular Jewish tunes into the body of Teffilos for Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur. These tunes most often include songs written by either the aforementioned Shlomo Carlebach or Mordechai Ben David.

In my view this music is a distraction. Using pop music no matter how melodious does not inspire Teshuva, at least not for me. Instead it inspires images of the performer who made those tunes popular.

The more time that has passed, the more this trend seems to have taken hold. And I think it is being way over done. I am not saying that this practice should be entirely eliminated. But as currently and increasingly being done, the Piyutim have become so vested with the tunes that they actually overwhelms the words. The intent of the Piyut is lost. And it has become more about the melody than about what the words mean.

I am a far bigger fan of the traditional Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur Chazanus melodies that were created specifically for the words that they are used for. Instead of detracting, they actually add to the meaning of the words.

Anyone who knows me will tell you that I am not generally a fan of Chazanus. In fact, I avoid it like the plague. But I think it is more because of the way it is executed by some of today’s Chazanim who are really quite bad. I doubt that it is because of anything intrinsically objectionable to it. I say this because I have heard an occasional good Chazan. The best one I ever heard is my own father who was a Chazan all of his life. He never did Carlebach… and certainly not MBD. His Davening was the most inspiring I have ever heard, by far. And I am not alone in thinking so. Wherever he ever ended up Davening for the Amud all the way until his death at age 87, he was a beloved figure and was always asked to return the following year... even after he retired from professional Chazanus.

His Melodies were either the traditional ones associated with the Yomim Noraim or family based Chazanic melodies going back many generations. He was a beloved Baal Teffila all of his life and with good reason. His Davening style combined with the melodies he used were far more heartfelt and moving than the Zmiros that pass for Chazanus today. When I hear an MBD tune used for a Piyut, I try and blot it out and think of my father's melody for it.

I Davened in one shul for over 25 years. It had a Chasidic bent and they kept increasing the tunes... mostly the MBD ones... until much of the Davening sounds almost like a clone of an MBD Rosh Hashanah - Yom Kippur album (V’Chol Maminim). I do not consider this inspiring at all. It is more of a concert... or an attempt at one. I say this realizing that the Baalei Teffila did not intend it that way. For the most part, they are sincere and they try to inspire with these melodies. But for me… it is too “pop-culture” style. And they do not inspire Teshuva.

The most egregious example of this is the way they end off Kaddish Shalem (Tiskabel) at the end of Musaf. They sing it to a Zmira. Cute little tune. But it has no relation to the solemnity of the day. And to make matters worse, the all important Yehei Shmeh Rabbah is all but obliterated by the tune.

This is one of the reasons I left that shul over 12 years ago. I now Daven at Yeshivas Brisk where the melodies are the traditional ones of the Yomim Noraim with only an occasional stray Carelbach Niggun or the like.

I doubt that I will ever be as inspired by a Baal Teffilah the way I was by my father. But at least now I don’t picture MBD with every other Piyut, anymore.

Administrative Note

It has come to my attention that a commenter has used an alias that belongs to a real person. In effect he stole an identity and commented as though he were that individual. This type of behavior will not be tolerated on my blog.

I only have one rule on this blog: No Nivul Peh. Other than that anything goes.

But it should go without saying that Halacha is to be respected as well. Any deliberate attempt to mislead or falsely identify oneself with the real name of another individual is Geneivas Daas. Violations of Halacha are not tolerated here either. Any such occurrences that are discovered will be immediately deleted and result in that individual being permanently banned from commenting on my blog.

Jesus …in the Machzor of Rosh Hashanah

Jesus... in the Machzor?!

Yep!

A friend of mine pointed out a very interesting Yehi Ratzon. It is the one right after the first set of Tekiyos Shofar that we do NOT say because of its dubious origin and the Hefsek in Tekiyos that most Poskim consider it to be.

I’ll say it’s dubious!!!

There is a reference there to Jesus! The phrase (in Hebrew) is: May it be the will of HaShem that the Tekiyos be accepted by Him… “Just as He accepted (the Prayers of) Eliyahu for a rememberance to good and through the ministering angel… Yeshua!) There is no angel, Yeshua.

Yeshua is Jesus.

The oldest version I found it in is the standard Machzor Kol Bo, (Hebrew Publishing Co.) that our parents and grandparents used (with the Beis Yisroel Yiddish Teitch, probably dating back to the 1920s or earlier). It is also in the Kol Bo Rav Pnimim (Zigelheim 1951), the Oahr Chudush (1978), The Machzor Rabbah (Eshkol), The Adler English translation (circa 1930s). And it is in the Artscroll In the Ashkenaz version it is on page 436 which has the Hebrew (Yud Shin Vav Ayin) and English translation: Yeshua!

At some point Artscroll must have noticed it and in later translations they have quietly omitted that word. But it is amazing that it was retained for so many years… generations really… without ever being noticed.

I wonder when... and how it crept into the liturgy.

Protecting Oneself From Eating Treif

How far should one go to protect oneself from eating Treif?

There are some Rabbanim that will not eat anywhere, even by caterers that have the absolute best Hashgachos. Such a Rav will only eat his own wife's cooking. I’ve even seen one bring his own food to a catered event.

The absurdity of not trusting recognized Hashgachos that virtually every other Rav of any stripe trusts borders on that of being a Chasid Shoteh, in my view.

I understand that this is not an actual case of Chasid Shoteh. No one is going to die here through lack of action, which is the context of the classic case of Chasid Shotah mentioned in the Gemarah. I use it here in the sense of being more Frum than even “Lifnim Meshuras HaDin requires. It is a level of “Frumkeit” here that is far in excess of what is necessary even if one has the highest of standards. Of course, I agree that one has a right not to eat where one chooses not to, for any reason. But I am not talking about rights here.

What exactly is such a Rav afraid of? Why can’t he accept what the others of similar religiosity accept? Is it that such an individual has a higher sensitivity to Kashrus than anyone else? Is it a level of Frumkeit… or is it a level of Yuhara? What is the purpose of such behavior? Does the fear of a remotely possible Teif morsal of food entering the mouth justify rejecting even the highest level of institutional Kashrus supervision?

One may defend such behavior by explaining that a Rav has many constituents. And even if they are all Shomer Mitzvos, no matter how Frum a constituent is, mistakes can be made. And some constituents whose standards are not “up to par” might become insulted if the Rav chooses to eat by person A, and refuses to eat by person B. Person B may, for example accept a Hechsher that this Rav doesn’t like, even though it is recognized… or he may be afraid that this person’s level of knowledge is not sophisticated enough and he may therefore make honest mistakes. So, in an effort to not embarrass anyone, he just doesn’t eat by anyone. Why take the chance? Although I disagree with that attitude, I understand it. But to not eat by any caterer at all, I think borders on Yuhara. What other explanation can there be?

What is to be gained by not eating at caterers with Hechsherim that are universally accepted? What is the Rav worried about? There is a point where one's fear of eating Treif falls into the category of Chosid Shoteh. Or that one's excessive Frumkeit falls into the Yuahara category.

Is it possible that a caterer may make a mistake, no matter how Ehrlich? Of course it is. But anyone can make a mistake, even the Rav’s own wife. To set oneself apart this way is in my view wrong. Such a person is unduly concerned with this particular Mitzvah. And in some cases, are far less concerned with behavior that can lead to great Chilul HaShem, such as looking the other way when a constituent cheats on his taxes.

One might say in the defense of such behavior… Why not? Why shouldn’t people be allowed to have any Kashrus standard that wish? Who cares what their reasons are?

Because it is anti-social. And it sets up false standards for others to emulate. And such strictures aren’t fool proof anyway. You can be extremely meticulous and still end up eating Treif.

Don’t think so? Just ask the citizens of Monsey.

The Akeidah and Teshuva

The Akeidah. This event, Chazal tell us, took place on Rosh Hashanah and we read it on the second day. The image of Avraham Avinu sacrificing his son Yitzchak has particular significance to me this year. It illustrates the ultimate Nisayon that Avrohom Avinu had to overcome. It is perhaps the most difficult test of faith imaginable, the sacrifice of your beloved child as a demonstration of your faith in… and devotion to God.

At times like this, when my grandson Reuven’s life is on the line, it takes enormous strength to sustain that faith. Our Patriarch, Avrohom, is synonymous with attribute of Chesed, the kindness and care that one has for his fellow man, to the extent that he was willing to withstand tremendous pain in the heat of the day in order to do the Chesed of Hachnasas Orchim. This innately kind and caring man was asked to do the exact opposite of his nature in the most impossible to image of ways.

I take sustenance from the fact that my progenitor, Avrohom, succeeded in maintaining his faith. God spared Yitzchok. God’s decree to Avroham to sacrifice his son was removed.

Teshuva is exceedingly great. Chazal tell us: “Great is Teshuva that pushes off a Lo Saseh in the Torah. (Yuma 86b)

The Gemara illustrates this concept with a metaphor it often uses to describe the relationship between God and Israel, that of the love between a man and a woman, in this case husband and wife. Quoting a Pasuk from Yirmiyahu (3:1) God tells Israel that even if his wife has strayed and commited adultery with many men (a reference to idol worship) Shov Aylai, N’um HaShem, Return to Me… the word of HaShem. This means Teshuva (the Hebrew word Shov, return, is the root of the word Teshuva) will be accepted and in essence destroy (push off) the evil of the decree.

An interesting question is asked by the Mefrorshim: Why is that a Chidush? What is Chazal telling us that we don’t already know? Teshuva is an Aseh, a positive commandement, and we know that an Aseh is Doche a Lo Saseh, a positive commandment always pushes off a negative commandment.

The “Pardes Yosef” answers this question based on a Tosphos in Kiddushin(38a). The Yerushalmi tells us that the reason we do not eat Matzah made from Chadash (new grain) on Pesach is not because of the principle of Aseh Doche Lo Saseh because that principle only applies to an Aseh that was given after Matan Torah. And the Aseh of eating Matzah on Pesach is in that category of being given prior to God giving us the Torah.

The same is also true for the Mitzvah of Teshuva. Chazal tell us Teshuva was created before the world was created, and cannot, therefore, push off a Lo Saseh. One might conclude that Teshuva doesn’t apply to negative commandments. Chazal tell us that even though The Mitzvah of Teshuva was created before the Torah was given… Great is the Mitzvah of Teshuva because in spite of that, it still pushes off a Lo Saseh of the Torah.

It’s been a rough year for me, and my family. May it be in the merit of our patrarch Avrohom together with Teshuva, Teffilah, and Tzedaka that the evil decree be removed. And may all the sick of Klal Yisroel be completely healed from the Heavens in both body and soul.

Ksiva V’Chasima Tova

*portions adapted from Torah L’Daas.

Is Yeshiva Chovevei Torah on a Slippery Slope?

This past Monday Rabbi Student featured a link to an article on his blog by Rabbi Amos Bunim. It was referenced in the context of cooperation with heterodox movements and quoted Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik. The portion excerpted there angered me. I commented there about how sad that the bashing of the Rav goes all the way back to 1956.

What happened is contained in the following excerpt”

“(W)hen 11 rashei yeshiva met and issued an issur against the Synagogue Council of America and the New York Board of Rabbis. Rav Kotler was the chairman of that meeting, and he requested that there be no mention of the issur until he had a chance to discuss the matter with Rav Soloveitchik. However, an overly zealous individual (not one of the rashei yeshiva) found out about the issue and publicized it before Rav Kotler had the opportunity to meet with Rav Soloveitchik. Rav Kotler was very upset and he told me, “This day is a tragic day in the history of Judaism in America.”

How astute of Rav Aharon Kotler to make the observation that because of that event, this was indeed a historically tragic day.And even more tragic is the fact that there are no voices like that today in that community.

I have mentioned many times my grief at the way Rav Soloveitchik has been and still is treated by the right. So I will not go into that here.

But it is worth noting that the substance of Rabbi Bunim’s words are really about an entirely different matter and the article is well worth the read in its entirety. It is a very strong critique and warning about the direction of orgnizations like Edah (now defunct) and more importantly Yeshiva Chovevei Torah (YCT).

Rabbi Bunim compares the origins of this Yeshiva to that of the origins of the Jewish Theological Seminary. I don’t know that I would go that far but I certainly understand where he is coming from.

Yeshiva Chovevei Torah considers itself the true inheritors of Modern Orthodoxy as they see Yeshiva University taking a hard right turn away form it. I do not agree with this assessment but I will say that there is a much greater right wing presence today that there was a two or three decades ago. But in taking upon itself the mantle of Modern Orthodoxy (or more accurately the left wing of Modern Orthodoxy) it has also taken upon itself the advocacy of many controversial innovations, many of which were opposed at least in spirit if not by actual Halacha by Rabbi Soloveitchik, YCT, founder Rabbi Avi Weiss’s own Rebbe. Innovations include support for women’s teffilah groups and other feminist oriented institutions.

Rabbi Bunim calls these compromises and equates them to those institued by the Conservative movement in the early stages of its developement. Like YCT, JTS was founded by Orhtodox rabbis who, like YCT believed that they needed to speak to a consituancy that would not accept the old European model of observance and that in order to survive, Judaism would have to make concessions to the reality of the modern world that was America.

So they eliminated the Mechitza, in an attempt to make the Jewish house of worship more like those common in America. This compromise led to another one which of course is much worse permitting a clear violation of Shabbos. They permitted driving to Shul. They rationalized that since they were driving to go shopping anyway, the may as well drive to Shul. That was the beginning of the slippery slope that is now bearing its inevitable fruit: the realization by some of the movement's more reality oriented rabbinic leadership that the Conservative Judiasm can really no longer be called Halachic.

No, I do not think that embracing feminism as YCT does, is comparable to eliminating the Mechitza. Eliminating a Mechtiza is a violation of Halacha according to all Poskim. But, the WTGs they support (to continue the example I cited) altough not technically violating Halacha does seem to fit the parallel of a compromise with a modernity that is the beginning of a new slippery slope. The following excerpt illustrates why:

“We have lived for centuries by the teachings of Chazal, including “Kol kevodah bas melech penimah.” To anyone who has studied the feminist platform, its roots and notions will be seen as the antithesis of Torah thought. The direction and tone of these organizations regarding the role of women are following the beat of a different drummer. The great poseik of our age, HaRav Moshe Feinstein, zt’l, found the concepts of women’s minyanim and sermons very foreign to Torah.”

So even though there is no clear Issur it is not that difficult to envision an eventual slide away from Halacha as more and more pressure for greater equality and change is exerted by feminists upon the Left wing rabbinic leadership. I do not say that this will happen for a certainty. But it is not an impossible result.

I am told that there are YCT graduates that are doing things that are quite radical. In one instance in a small community one such rabbi joined a Reform Kollel. Are we are actually witnessing the beginnings of that slippery slope today? Is YCT the 21st century version of JTS?

Ultimate Truth

It’s nice to see Godol back in his new incarnation as XGH. As always, he has something incisive to say on issues of faith keeping many of us on our toes. In his latest post he makes the following statement:

“I'm quite depressed by how so many even LW MO highly intelligent people that I know just cannot face up to the obvious truth.”

This is a reference to the fact that there are so many scientific facts which contradict the Torah narrative, it is impossible to understand how intelligent people can still be believe the narrative.

The basic problem here is the insistence that Emunah has to be scientifically based… that facts which seem to contradict an ancient text must trump the text. But this assumes that scientific facts are the sum and substance of all truth. This is what I believe to be the basis of those who have become atheists. They look at the conundrums that are much of the problem between science and Torah and just conclude that the Torah cannot be true. “How could it be?” they ask. “The Stiros are to compelling!” “My Rebbeim lied to me!” …a reasonable conclusion but not necessarily a correct one.

But that is not what Emunah is. It is not about proofs or facts. It is about beliefs. Godol once alluded to this in what I consider to be one of his finest posts. In his quest for Emes he came to the conclusion that Emes (Truth) is based on experience, not on scientific proofs. And in fact that is far a more compelling reason to believe than the problem a seemingly contradictory fact which science poses to the Torah narrative. But even experience alone is not enough to substantiate our Emunah, in my view. But if you add the myriad of other factors, one of which is expereince, you have a very solid basis for Emunah Sheliama.

What about this common charge by skeptics: “OK” they might concede. “There is a God.” But what about the many competing religions? Why Judaism? And yes, we tend to believe what we are taught from the time we are old enough to understand… to the exclusion of what others are contradictorily taught. So why believe in Judaism? Why not Christianity for example? For me Christianity has far more problems than Judaism does, and Christianity is in any case rooted in and a distortion of… Judaism. But I cannot answer that question entirely. I admit to a certain degree of indoctrination to Judaism plus a somewhat low level of knowledge of other religions. But still, I believe. And, yes, I consider myself lucky to have been born into Judaism and it is my hope that had I not been born into it, that I would have found it and converted to it.

As an individual with naturally skeptical tendencies, I have no difficulty rejecting other religions. So why am I not skeptical about Torah Judaism? It is a combination of factors that are way too complex to list all of them. But just to list some, I begin with a rational mind. That, combined with experiencing the grandeur, complexity, and majesty of the universe, the fact that Judaism probably has the richest body of literature dating way back before Gutenberg of all religions, its long term survival against all attempts to destroy it and is the root of the two other great religions. But there are many, many other factors.

But in the end it is a belief, not a fact. Facts belong in a science lab and though they can be a factor in supporting belief, they are not the only factor and contradictions between science and my beliefs will sometimes remain questions. But my faith is unshakeable not because of my rational mind but because of everything else that combines with my rational mind to indicate to me that the ultimate truth is the Truth of Judaism.

modified: 9/20/06

Nostra Aetate and Righteous Gentiles

Whenever I try and point out the inherent goodness that is part and parcel of the Ameican people, I get comments like the following:

“There is a concept of Chasdei Umos Ha'olam. But neither are **all** of them as righteous and upstanding”

No, not all of them. But when it comes to Americans, I assert my Chidush: The majority of Americans, most of whom are Christian are from the Chasidei Umos HaOlam. They are Righteous Gentiles. In my view they have this presumption. This has been demonstrated to me time and again. I think when Rav Moshe said that the US is a Medina Shel Chesed, he strongly implies this.

American Christians are not the Christians of old. European Christians had the hatred of Jews in their mothers milk (to quote Menachem Begin). But Americans whose ancestors were themselves persecuted by other Christians, had to leave their homeland in order to be able to practice their faith in freedom. The difference between American Christians and European Christians is vast. This is true even today (although there are barely anything but nominal Christians left in an immoral Europe that has embraced secularism and socialism as their new gods).

In this country the people who are the kindest and truly good hearted to us are those who truly believe in the principles of their Christian faith. Contrary to popular belief amongst many Jews, Christianity has more to it than belief in Christ. They have many values that they share with Judaism, most of which are taken from the Torah. And for the most part (with some notable exceptions like the Southern Baptists and Jews for Jesus) they do not actively seek to convert us. They truly believe in that in that portion of the bible that they share with us. And they believe what it tells them about God blessing those who bless the Jews.

If you will counter, “What about end times prophecy?” Sure they believe that in Acharis HaYomim, their god will have a second coming and there will only be salvation for those that believe in him. But who cares about that? We know the Emes. They are wrong. Only one sect in Judaism believes that their Messiah will have a second coming. Most Jews know that Moshiach will come from the living. Shibud Galios will come to an end, the Beis Hamikdash will be rebuilt, and we will have Techiyas HaMeisim. Let Christians believe what they will about the future. The future will take care of itself and they will then see for themselves.

What about Catholicism? Has the pope apologized for all the Jews who were burned on the stake in the name of Christianity?

Yes, he has. At least his Church has. You cannot ever truly apologize for all that bloodshed. The victims are no longer here to accept or reject that apology. The ancestors of today’s Christians are answering to God as we speak. But current Christianity does have Charatah (regret). And for us the most important part of their Teshuva is the pledge to never to do it again. They have given us that pledge. But as I said from the outset, we still need to be vigilant and keep looking over our shoulders. In the meantime we should accept their friendship in the spirit in which it is given. It would be very useful to see exactly what the official position of the Church is with respect to Jews.. It is important for those who think that Catholics are Esav incarnate to read what their official policy is. I think it ought to be required reading by all Jews so that we can once and for all dispel all of the many myths and misunderstandings about their current beliefs.

The following excerpts are from Notra Aetate. I excerpted those parts which are relevant to us. They should guide us in understanding their motives. Too many people think that Church doctrine is hateful to Jews. But that is not so.

Nostra Aetate

The Church of Christ acknowledges that the beginnings of her faith and her election are found already among the Patriarchs, Moses and the prophets. … The Church, cannot forget that she received the revelation of the Old Testament through the people with whom God in his mercy concluded the Ancient Covenant. Nor can the Church forget that she draws support from the root of that olive tree onto which have been grafted the wild shoots, the Gentiles…

(N)or did the Jews accept the Gospel; indeed more of them opposed its spreading. Nevertheless, God holds the Jews most dear for the sake of their Fathers; He does not repent of the gifts he makes…

Since the spiritual relationship common to Christians and Jews is so great, this sacred celebration wants to encourage and recommend that mutual understanding and respect is the basis of divine studies.

(T)he Church, mindful of the bond she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel's spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone.

The Pope, Islam, and the Stupidity of Some of Our People

It never ceases to amaze me. Muslims are at it again. You would think after the last fiasco they would have learned a bit about how to react to criticism in the civilized world. Last time something like this happened a huge number of Muslims reacted to a bunch of cartoons they deemed offensive to their religion with violence. Then after weeks of such violent protest across the world, they decided to have a holocaust cartoon-fest which was rife with holocaust denial and strident anti-Semitism!

This time it is the Pope. In referring to recent events where people were forced to convert to Islam through threats of violence, he cited the words of a Byzantine emperor who described some Islamic teachings as "evil and inhuman." But even after an apology for offending Muslims, the national news media carried news stories about continued angry and violent anti Catholic and anti Pope demonstrations taking place all over the Muslim world. In one instance a nun was murdered. On one website, Al-Qaida in Iraq and its allies have posted a warning to Pope Benedict, proclaiming a holy war and warning that the pope and the West are "doomed," adding that the only choices ahead are between converting to Islam or death Meanwhile, protests against the pope's remarks continue today from the Middle East to Asia. In Pakistani ruled Kashmir, protesters chanted "Death to the Pope."

The Pope need not have apologized. The reaction to his words actually proved his point!

So why do I bring this up? Because I could not believe my ears this morning.

During the course of a given work day in my lab, I will often listen to radio talk shows. This morning I happen to be listening to The Laura Ingraham Show. So what does a Jewish caller do on the radio talk show do? She decides to bash the Catholic religion calling the Pope a Hyporcrite! Why? Because Christainity is guilty of the same thing kind of violence. She then cited the Spanish Inquisition as an example of it.

What an idiot! I have no clue if the caller was Orthodox or not, but she did identify herself as Jewish. To castigate a church who has done a 180 almost 50 years ago and has since gone out of their way to try and repair the kind of damage done to their image by the Inquisition. We live in a world that is becoming increasingly dangerous because of Islamist fanatics… and this caller chooses to bring up the inquisition and bash the Pope!

What could she have been thinking? What could she have possibly hoped to gain? The host, Laura Ingraham is one of the most pro Israel, pro Jewish radio talk show hosts on the air. Her show is nationally syndicated. And she is a converted Catholic! For a Jew to identify herself as such and then call the host’s spiritual leader a hypocrite is both foolish and wrong. At this point in history when the Pope is making a statement about the inherent violence of Islam criticizing the Pope is virtually as stupid as calling Franklin Roosevelt an anti-Semite would have been before the invasion at Normandy during World War II.!

And this is a mentality I often encounter here. Whenever I say anything positive about our Christian supporters, whether it is Evangelicals or Catholics, I get sentiments like those expressed by this woman! What’s the matter with you people?! Can’t you see you are bititng the hand that feeds you? Don’t you understand that Christians are not the enemy? The enemy are Muslims. Get a clue!

Encounters with Apikursus in a Yeshiva

Lakewood Yid has asked a very important question on the last post and the answer, I think, deserves a post of its own. His question was whether I believed that violating Halacha should be trumped by a university choosing to teach courses that might have Apikusus in them.

My answer is: Chas VeShalom! Halacha cannot by definition be violated. If it’s Assur, it’s Assur. Period. But, is it really Assur to allow such courses on campus? Dr. Revel didn’t think so. When asked how he could allow such subjects to be taught on his campus he answered that the Bachurim are prepared for such encounters on the Torah side of their day.

Some might counter, “Who says they are prepared enough? What about those who are easily swayed etc.?

Well you can never acheive 100% success in preparing anyone for an encounter with Apikursus. Just look at Volozhin. Many Maskilim came out of there. Can we say that Volozhin allowed Apikursus on their Campus? Of course not. So how did some of their best Bachurim become some of the most famous Maskilim of their time? Becasue Volozhin was unprepared for the onslaught of enlightenment. And curious minds will seek it out if it is available anywhere.

Today, Apikursus is available everywhere. You don’t have to seek it out. It seeks you out. Insulation is nearly impossible. In YU such encounters should be anticipated by the Rebbeim who they can speak to Bachurim about questionable subject matter they might encounter there.

It is also imperitive for the Rabbeim in any high school Yeshiva to know the spiritual makeup of that Bachur. Any Bachur who wants to attend YU can be evaluated and in some cases I would strongly advise a given Bachur to not take any courses like that and take a track that offers only non-controversial subjects. If a Rebbe thinks that such a Bachur would too easily succumb to pressure to take such courses, he should strongly urge him not to attend YU at all or any college for that matter except for Touro or the like.

As far as the university itself is concerned, one cannot eliminate courses that are deemed non acceptable because:

a) They would not be taken seriously as a university by academia.

b) Ein L’Davar Sof. What are you going to censor? …the Theory of Evolution? …Cosmology courses? …Philosophy courses?

c) Isn’t it better to encounter these courses in a Yeshiva environment where you have a Rebbe on premises to help you deal with it? Is it better to go to a secular college where all Apikursus is taught as gospel with no one to counter it?

In our time subject matter that was once taught only the rarified atmosphere of a university has popular appeal and many Jews encounter it in other ways, most notably on the internet. And the more insulated one is in their educational years, the less prepared they are to deal with it properly when it hits them in the outside world.

Orthodox Jews who are now skeptics are in part a result of the isolation they had from these subjects in their educational and home environments. If I recall correctly some of the skeptics have commented on other blogs (most notably on Godol Hador's blog, AH) that had they been brought up in a more enlightened environment they may never have embraced atheism. I think some of these closet skeptics are from the type of environment that insulates people.

So yes. I think YU should allow these these courses to be offered. But they should not mandate taking them and in some cases even discourage students from taking them.

Is this 100% foolproof? No. But what is?

Modified at 1:40PM CDT

Yeshiva University and Rav Hershel Schachter

There is a very enlightening article in the YU Comentator, that reports on a meeting between Rosh Kollel Hershel Schachter (RHS) and Yeshiva College Dean David Srolovitz (DDS). Much of the discussion revolves around what is appropriate subject matter to be offered in a University that is part of a Yeshiva and whether this has hindered some students from attending YU.

What is fascinating about this article is to see what the curriculum was… and is… and the perspective of Rav Schachter on this issue and on other related ones as well. It should be noted that many subjects in YU are controversial in the Torah world, and might seem inappropriate for Frum students to study.

It should also be noted that Dr. Bernard Revel, from the very beginning insisted that the institutution that he founded offered those courses because of his insistence on creating a real university which he believed, (correctly in my view… certainly for that time) would be the only way of keeping the better students from leaving the Yeshiva and going to a completely secular university full time. This meant allowing academic freedom. When asked how he could allow potential Apikursus, his response was that the Bachurim were well prepared to deal with it on the Yeshiva side… and they would be able to distinguish between what is and isn’t Apikursus when confronted with it in the classroom.

Bearing this in mind, here are some of (mostly) Rav Shachter's words taken from that article:

The Commentator(TC): In light of the recent departure of students from Yeshiva College, should YC alter aspects of their curriculum to satisfy students?

Rabbi Schachter: I remember 50 years ago when students who were coming from the Telshe Yeshiva in Cleveland - against Rabbi Gifter's advice - would ask 'Why are you going to Yeshiva? To study the gospels? And they're still studying the Gospels here. There is no reason why they have to teach the Gospels. There is so much literature in the world, why teach the Gospels?

Nowadays everyone goes to college even students from Torah V'Daas. You have to go to college. But students go to Touro or wherever. They should go to Yeshiva College. We should make it comfortable for all students. (Some students) are not going to come because of theological reasons. Why shouldn't we make it comfortable for all students to come and attend Yeshiva? Why shouldn't we allow students to come to Yeshiva without studying the Gospels? …It would be a good idea when you have a course where certain things from the Gospels are taught, that a religious Jew should teach it, as opposed to a Christian minister or a non observant Jew.

TC: How would you respond to a student who feels uncomfortable studying academic Bible?

Dean David Srolovitz: Some parts of academic Bible, like putting what you're reading into the context of the society of the time and looking at it in linguistic terms is, I think, a healthy thing for students. … (O)ur mission is primarily secular in nature.

RHS: When I was in college, the rabbis taught Tanach (Bible). Now, in recent years, the college has introduced more academic Bible. The students in IBC are taking Tanach …and don't have to worry about taking academic Bible. However, students in other programs are stuck taking academic Bible when they want to hear more traditional Tanach.

TC: Many students feel that the intensity of a rigorous dual curriculum prevents them from maximizing their potential in either section of the day. How should such a student resolve this problem?
RHS: They used to have a 5-6 year program where they wouldn't charge extra for taking courses and only charge for using the dormitory. We should popularize that now. Everyone is in such a rush at the age of 18 to get out of college. …They are just fooling themselves in to thinking that they are accomplishing something. They are not.

TC: How should Yeshiva College approach the teaching of literature?

RHS: We should notify the teachers that this is a Jewish institution and they therefore have to be careful not to teach literature which is inappropriate or avodah zara. I was once asked how we should teach literature and I said "It's not easy. You have to pick out the things that are Kosher."

DDS: How do you teach Chaucer?

RHS: I don't know if you have to teach Chaucer.

DDS: Chaucer …is part of the canon of a liberal arts education. …I would imagine that there is very little that can not be taught if it is taught in the right way

RHS: Chaucer is part of the canon of world literature but that canon is so vast. You are not going to be able to study every part of it. Whatever a university will offer, there will always be more to study.

DDS: There is a sense of what an educated English major needs to have at his finger tips. There is an assumption in graduate schools, that students are familiar with basics like Chaucer. …We are a university and a yeshiva. When students sign up, they know that they are coming to a university too.

RHS: It has been the tradition here since time immemorial that many types of courses are offered at the college. The problem is that many students come in and think that many courses are approved by the rabbis. They don't realize that none of the courses are approved by the rabbis. Students return from Israel and don't realize whether a course is questionable. …I personally feel that it is a problem that it is offered. The deans have always said that Dr. Revel had it and Dr. Belkin had it and I think that it wasn't right since day number one. But at least we should make the school comfortable for students who are not interested in taking these things in classes.

DDS: Would you and your colleagues agree that certain subjects are always inappropriate under all circumstances?

RHS: I would have to consult them. (But) I don't think such a small number of lines (from e.g. the New Testament) for just a historical purpose is a problem.

TC: Is it appropriate for a student to treat Yeshiva College as a trade school?

RHS: When I was a student, Torah u-Madda under Dr. Belkin did not mean as much as it does today. Rabbi Belkin wanted to provide a more available yeshiva and college and environment than City College. What's wrong if a student treats college as a trade school? Just let him. We should make him feel comfortable. You won't be changing the nature of the college. That's the question: should you accept such a student whose head is screwed on differently because he believes in Torah u-Parnasa - I don't think you need to reject him for that. Why should we chase away students? They are coming to this school and participating in this college. We do not need to keep on emphasizing that we are Torah u-Madda and not Torah u-Parnasa. We should allow all students to feel comfortable in attending YU.

TC: Should works be censored in a Yeshiva College Art History course?

RHS: Fifty percent they can teach but I don't understand how they can teach the other half - it's avodah zara and gilui arayot (licentiousness). There was a professor here years ago who claimed that there was a difference between nakedness and nudity - I think they both do not belong here. I find it very offensive that such a thing is even offered. …(Q)uestions come up every year where students come over to me complaining how they took a problematic Bible course with such and such a professor ... or complaining about a sociology course.

DDS: The only way to change this is to do deal with these things upfront and where people are willing to deal with these controversial matters in public. …If I say that academic freedom is more important than anything else - that's what people expect the dean of Yeshiva College to say. Similarly, people will expect to hear a certain type of approach coming from a rosh yeshiva. We need to work together on these issues.

Havoc From Across the Ocean - Guest Post

Once again I feel that it is my sad duty to present yet another victim of certain individuals within the Torah world. I don’t know who these individuals are. But I know the identity of poster and know the world in which he has lived most of his adult life. That respected people can act this way is more than troubling. And it should reach the very essence of our hearts and souls that someone is made to suffer so much by those who supposedly represent Torah ideals. The actions taken by these individuals seem to be very one sided, unfair, and even cruel. And he currently must withstand all the slings and arrows thrust at him... without any real recourse!

While it is true that there are always two sides to every story and the following presentation is only from his perspective, I cannot help but believe that he has been unjustly treated by the people he trusted. In an effort to help him present his story and give him Chizuk I have invited him to write the following guest post.

Havoc From Across the Ocean

Perhaps I thought a year ago that I could not be shocked by anything that I would find out about the 'frum world' after living in it for over 30 years, but I was soon to discover that that was not the case. I suppose HaKadosh Baruch Hu is pointing out to me how different it feels when something happens to you than when you just hear about it, and maybe I will be able to have more sympathy for others when I hear of their troubles. It won't be possible to go into great detail in this short posting (thank you to R. Maryles for use of his blog), and there is almost an endless amount of information in this story which is necessary to really understand what is going on (which I myself can't say that I do right now). I would therefore like to focus on the really scandalous aspect of things, which is the way certain people seem to be meddling in others' lives in a way which is utterly inexcusable.

Last February, I thought that I was happily married and was looking forward to our 25th anniversary in the summer. My wife and I have lived together in Jerusalem for all that time and have 9 children, and though there have been fights, none of it seemed to be out of the ordinary, and in general I felt that we had a warm personal relationship. Suddenly, in a total surprise for me, my wife announced (in the context of a discussion of a minor incident involving one of the children) that "someone said we should get divorced." Within a few days, and with very little explanation from her of her motivations, we were living apart, and she made it clear that she had no intentions of even trying to work for reconciliation.

I spent much time and effort trying to talk to people and piece together what was happening (even though I was aware, of course, of certain problems which were my fault but were far from grounds for divorce in my opinion). The impression that I got and which I still have is that my wife had been discussing me and our marital problems behind my back for years, and that certain people who were very far from having first-hand knowledge of the situation were actually pushing her to get divorced and to be absolutely uncompromising about it.

One of these people is a woman who lives in America, and though she has visited with my wife on visits to Eretz Yisrael, she has never once met me or even spoken to me on the phone. I now have clear evidence that this woman has advised my wife that I am "abusive" and "dangerous" (without ever seeing me in person!) and must be treated with total ruthlessness and not even talked to. I have tried to call her and email her, and she simply refuses to answer. I have since found out that this woman "engineered" her own daughter's divorce 6 years ago in the same way, and that daughter is now a close friend and advisor of my wife, to my great dismay.

The other person whose behavior has astounded me is a Rabbi who was my teacher in a Ba'al Teshuva Yeshiva here in Eretz Yisrael before our marriage but who lives in the U.S. for over 25 years. I have stayed in touch with him and taken advice from him over the years, and in particular I confided in him about a very sensitive problem I have had (which I may discuss further in future posts if there is interest.) In the course of recent months, it has become very clear to me that this Rabbi has also been advising my wife to be against me, although, again, he is not in a position to know anything directly about my behavior or the situation in our family. I have spoken to him a number of times over this period, and he has made many remarks which make it obvious that he sees me also as being some kind of abusive husband and father, and he refuses to believe my assertions that my wife is distorting the picture tremendously and saying many things which are simply lies.

He has also been quite evasive, never giving straight answers and making himself as unavailable as possible. Even though I have written him many letters and asked him explicitly to write me back about this very serious matter, he has not written me one word and he speaks to me only when I call him. It goes without saying that I feel terribly betrayed and disappointed in the behavior of these people (as well as others) who should be expected, as prominent members of the frum society, to be examples of decency and derech eretz.

Again, without discussing the details of the case, I can assure everyone that I am far from being "abusive", and if I was, our marriage would have never lasted 25 years. There is simply no reason why anyone should be encouraging my wife to proceed in this extreme fashion without any genuine attempt to work things out through counseling.

Let me add that there are many fine Talmidei Chachamim and counseling professionals who know the facts of the story (including everything that I actually did wrong) and are appalled by the conduct of my wife and her advisors. At this point she is pursuing a court case against me in the secular courts, even though this is unconditionally forbidden by the halacha, and she is slandering me and insulting me to individuals and in the court. It is beyond belief that frum people should countenance such actions.

At this point, I am not revealing the names of these people or giving enough information to make it possible to guess their identities. I would like to hear the reactions of the tzibbur to this sort of thing (as well as any similar stories which people may know of) in order to decide what should be done about this plague of irresponsible and seemingly malicious behavior in our community.

If the people who are against me wish to reveal who I am and what the claims against me are, I am unafraid. I have done nothing to harm anyone and neither do I wish to do so. I make no claims of being a perfect person or a tzaddik, but I do not deserve the sort of treatment that I have been given, and I believe that if those with accusations against me will come out with them in public, I will be vindicated. Yesh Din v'Yesh Dayan.

Is The Torah Biased?

Is The Torah Biased?

The answer to that questions is no. Certainly one cannot accuse our Creator of having the human trait of bias. But to any thinking human being who has any kind of sensitivity to the human condition there are some very troubling Halachos.

One of the most troubling of Halachos is the way the Torah deals with rape of a Naarah, (a twelve year old girl) in Shemos (22:15,16). The Torah tells us that any man that has sexual relations with her, the punishment is as follows: If the father refuses to give his daughter to the rapist for marriage, the rapist must then pay a 50 Shekel fine to the father. This, the Torah tells us is the “value” for virgins given in marriage.

If there is any human being that is not troubled by these biblical verses, including the most ultra of Orthodox Jews, then he is not human. Imagine the same scenario with you own twelve year old daughter. She is raped by an adult… and the punishment? A fifty dollar fine!

I never understood this Halacha. Yet that is clearly the way the
Torah spells it out. Does this mean I cannot accept the Torah? Does it not show bias by God himself? Of course it doesn’t. What it shows is that our own sensitivities are very driven by the culture and the time in which we live.

What does this say about us and about our civilization? Is it possible to say that our own morals are superior to that of the Torah? Hardly. One need not look further than the typically dressed American teenager in the street in the summer... or many of the billboard or magazine ads... even in the relatively decent magazines like “Good Housekeeping”. The amount of skin exposure is often off the charts. Compare that with the modesty standards required by Halacha.

Certainly Torah standards of modesty in dress are superior by far, to the standards of our current civilization. And if one looks at the entertainment culture, one would have a hard time finding anything even remotely resembling sexual morality there. Yet there is this discrepancy about the Torah attitude to rape between the two cultures. What gives?

The answer is that I do believe that one can have a moral standard that is higher than the one outlined for us in the Torah. The Torah sometimes gives us minimum standards. And allows us to implement higher standards as society changes, while making sure the minimal standards are not violated.

One could conclude from the Halacha I quoted that in ancient times rape was not looked at in the same way it is today. I know it is impossible for our minds to comprehend that. But it seems to be the case. And it isn’t all that difficult to understand that. Throughout history, if one looks outside of the Torah world, women were far worse off in just about every area of life. They were treated mostly as possessions with no rights at all. But our sages understood what God wanted of us. They built a legal system and thus a society where women were not only treated as human beings but were actually given priorities and rights that their husbands could not countermand. So as civilization advanced so too the Torah’s attitudes on how women should be treated became more like the accepted norm.

Perhaps civilization advanced beyond the Torah’s minimum standard on this isue and came to see rape as amongst the most disgusting of violations against humanity. I too see it that way. Does that mean I am holier than the Torah? No. It means that I have developed a moral understanding that is greater than the standard required of me by the Torah, a standard that was moral in a society that treated women differently than it does today.

The Torah actually encourages a higher standard of behavior than it mandates. It is possible to do something that is totally disgusting, yet technically permitted by the Torah law. It is a concept called Naval B’Reshus HaTorah, a term that I believe was coined by the Ramban. The Torah recognizes that there is a higher standard than the minimum. And it tells us to seek it. The Torah explicitly states it: Kedoshim Tihiyu. Make yourselves holy. This means that even in those areas that are technically permissible one should seek a higher standard of behavior. That would definitely include our modern sensibilities to rape. And that is as it should be. It is quite proper to look at rape the way we do.

There are many other Torah laws like this one that are difficult to understand, like the institution of slavery for instance. But the same reasoning applied here can apply there.

The bottom line is that one can truly feel that a specific Halacha is unfair but one should understand that our feelings are often culturally generated and are not necessarily unfair by the absolute standards of the Torah, and a historical context. One should rather understand that God in His infinite wisdom gave us a system designed to serve Him and at the same time provides us with the best possible way to live. If inequities are perceived, one must realize that... perception is not always reality. One needs to look at the entire picture not the least of which is the historical perspective. And one must have a great deal of Torah knowledge in order to understand those issues which trouble us. And sometimes, no matter how great we become in understanding Torah knowledge we just can’t always understand the “why” of God.

The Torah was given for the ages, not just for ancient times or for current times. One great civilization after another has died while our own has continued to survive in spite of all attempts to destroy it. It was Torah law that carried Jewry throughout the millennia. Once we realize that and see the beauty of a system relative to all others throughout history we can see its divine origin and appreciate the rectitude of its laws.

Updated:9/14/06

Agunos: A Tale of Two Poskim

During the course of the last few posts I was reminded of an incident that occurred quite a few years ago that involved an Agunah. (Although an Agunah is technically a woman who does not know if her husband is alive or dead, I use it here as it is generically used.)

It was the classic case. The recalcitrant husband refused to give his wife a Get. The wife was getting desperate and had no one to turn to. So went to a legitimate Posek who has an international reputation. He promised her his best effort. After numerous attempts at trying to convince the husband that there was nothing to be gained except being of being put in Nidui (a sort of semi Cherem), he still refused. He of course realized such public ostracizing rarely worked. There were always people who didn’t realize his status or simply didn’t care. Most people would deal with him as they always had, both socially and otherwise. He would still have his friends, his Shul, his job. In short the Nidui would basically be as ineffective as it usually is.

So, this Posek knowing the history of such cases decided he would get some “thugs” to physically threaten him if he didn’t willingly give his wife a Get. After having the living daylights scared out of him he agreed to give his wife a Get… “willingly”.

I put the word willingly in quotes because I have to ask, I this really a case of… willingly? Did this man really want to give his wife a Get or was he just afraid of having his legs broken? The Halacha clearly states that the Get must be willingly given. It cannot be forced.

Well, be that as it may, the Get was given and accepted. But the story does not end there. When another Posek of great stature found out about it he nullified the Get saying that it indeed was not given willingly despite what the husband said at the time of handing over the Get. Intimidating someone into giving a Get does not count as giving it willingly. I don’t know what the final disposition of that case was but I have to ask, “Which Posek was right?”

I have heard of intimidations like this occurring in other Agunah situations, especially in Israel where in one case I heard about, a husband would rather be indefinitely incarcerated rather than divorce his wife. He may be an idiot, but his wife is still an Agunah.

The Agunah situation is a very unfortunate one. There are far too many… evil… husbands who refuse to “free” their wives… for a whole host of reasons… most all of them illegitimate. And try as they might Rabbanim cannot change the Halacha.

There are horror stories about corrupt Batei Din who will not help and even hinder these Agunos. But hands of even the good Batei Din are tied by Halacha. There are, however, things which can be done and there has been some movement in that direction. Some of them have been legitimate, others questionable, still others totally illegitimate. But in all cases the intentions were good... to help the Agunah. The RCA requires its rabbis to stipulate a pre-nuptual condition requiring the husband not to with-hold a Get if at some point the marriage dissolves. And then there is the Rackman-Morgenstern Beis Din where they misapply Kedusei Taus. This has caused an almost universal outcry by nearly all Poskim from all segments of Orthodoxy because of the potential for Mamzerus.

It is very sad. My heart goes out to these “trapped” women. Something needs to be done. But it has to be done right. There is too much at stake. Women should not have be forced into lifetime “prisons”. But neither should there be any question about the legitimacy of offspring if a woman is given a faulty Get.

Perhaps a step in the right direction would be to standardize all Battei Din and put them under the jurisdiction of an umbrella Organization comprised of members of every segment of Orthodoxy. Strict universal guidelines would be established and in order to be certified. Failure to follow the guidleins would be cause for the removal of certification and no Get issued out of such a court would be recognized by anyone in any segment of Orthodoxy. All Rabbis involved with such courts would be vetted by the Poskim of the umbrella organization and only the most honorable rabbis would be allowed to serve.

This may not be the ultimate solution. But is would be a good start.

Bashing Charedim

My father often would get upset when he saw someone who had committed a crime being defended by a Rav. This is a story he told me on one of the many occasions when I visited him in Israel. But before I tell the story, a bit of background about my father.

He was a Charedi. He grew up in Galicia, the son of a prominent Chasidic Rav who was the Mora D’Asra of a community of about five villages in the Ukraine when it was under Polish rule. (I guess one could call it the Five Towns… of Poland). My father’s retirement years were spent in Bnei Brak. He retired to Bnei Brak because it reminded him very much of the community he lived in as a young man in Poland. Immediately after moving there he developed a relationship with a local Chasidic Rebbe who had a shteeble one block away.

This was a special relationship as they were both about the same age, both holocaust survivors, both lived in the US for many years and both immigrated to Israel at about the same time. My father loved people. And people loved him.

This Rebbe was quite decent fellow in many respects. He was a kind and gentle man and a big Talmid Chacham. He recognized and respected my father’s Yichus (a direct descendant of R. Shimon Yaroslover.) In fact, when my father was Nifter the Aron made many stops on its way to its final resting place, one of which was at thatv Shteeble. There were two separate venues for hespedim, one in Chicago and one in Bnei Brak. This Rebbe’s Hespid was the most moving of all hespedim, including my own. He truly loved my dad.

My father would often discuss “current events” in Bnei Brak with me. One time he started telling me the story of a Chasidic fellow who had been caught selling drugs in Israel. An as though that weren’t bad enough he really got livid about the following: In the course of talking about the incident with this Rebbe, and wondering about how someone so Frum could do such a thing, This Rebbe very calmly said to my father, “Reb Shimon, you have to understand, I know this fellow. He has a big family to support!”

My father was so upset at this Rebbe, his friend, that he could barely control himself. How could a Chasidic Rebbe whom he admired and who was a huge Talmid Chacham try and rationalize such behavior? How could he explain away a drug dealer by saying he had a large family to support? Yet that is exactly what this Rebbe did. This Talmid Chacham, this man who had a following, THis man who paskined Shailos for his Chasidim, felt no compunction about defending a drug dealer. How far can one go to be Dan L’Kav Zchus?

I bring up this story to make the following point. There have been far too many instances of rabbis defending bad behavior. And this is but one more. It does no good protesting that we ought to not air our dirty laundry. That just makes the problem worse. We have in our midst a mentality and despicable. Many otherwise good people find it acceptable to excuse even the worst kind of behavior.

There is no Mitzvah to defend it. There is no profit in hiding it in some misguided attempt at being Dan L’Kaf Zchus. Nor is calling it Lashan Hara any good. There is no excuse hiding it under the guise of preventing Chilul HaShem. The Chilul HaShem has already been done. It is up to us to condemn it, not expalin it away.

Whenever Torah Law is perverted by any kind of rabbinic leader it has to be condemned in the strongest possible terms. That is what I am doing here. There is no sweeping it under the carpet.

Many people have complained that my blog serves only to exacerbate the hatred of the outside world against us by exposing our flaws. I disagree. By exposing and condemning I do the exact opposite. Those who may read my blog from that world and read or know of the newspaper articles I sometimes reference will know that at least one rabbi thinks such behavior is inexcusable. And of course it isn’t only “one rabbi” it is vast majority of the Torah leadership… left to right! But all it takes is a few misguided individuals trying to excuse it, to create a Chilul HaShem.

I am often accused of not really having Hochacha as my purpose and that my real purpose is just to bash Charedim. They reason in part that my target audience doesn’t read my blog anyway. But the fact is Charedim do read my blog. Most of those calling me a Charedi basher… are Charedim.

Instead of vilifying me for being a gadfly, those who have been doing so ought to take the message I send to those rabbinic leaders they are defending and convince them join the vast majority of Torah leadership that does not condone bad behavior, and condemns it in even stronger terms than I do. Convince them that their words are being exposed. Convince them to change.

We cannot be an Or LaGoyim if we ignore our problems. They won’t go away. The more some rabbinic leaders rationalize bad behavior the more it will increase. We cannot preach honesty to the world if we excuse dishonesty in our own. Instead of yelling at me… yell at the criminals, and their supportive rabbis, whether they be MO or Charedi. It doesn't make any difference.

Shehechiaynu Vekimanu Vehigiyanu...

We have finally made it. Yep, we Orthodox Jews finally have kosher facilities in the American penal system. Religious Jews of all stripes who have committed crimes can now enjoy kosher cuisine while serving out their criminal sentences. Frum Jews are now a significant part of or prisoner population There are even Minynim there… three times a day! What an achievement!

We’ve all seen the media reports, whether on a TV screen or in a newspaper: Religious Jews, wearing Kipot or black hats, or dressed in Kapotehs… being arrested.

Much of this stems from factors that have been discussed here in various incarnations many times. Factors like the belief that it is halachicly permissible to cheat non-Jews. There is also the fact that our educational systems do not have enough emphasis on Mitzvos Bein Adam L’Chaverio.

Lest anyone think I am singling out Charedi criminals, I am not. One of the more recent scandals involved a wealthy real estate developer strongly identified with Modern Orthodoxy. And there is also the case of Jack Abramoff.

In an article* discussing this issue, several high-profile crimes were highlighted. Let us note some of them. The New Square scandal is the first one mentioned. Four Chasidim were convicted of defrauding the government of 11 million dollars. They set up a fictitious yeshiva to receive federal funds. In another case pointed out a day school principal stole 6 million dollars by claiming 80 fictional employees of the school.

In my own city of Chicago a few years ago there was an up and coming Frum young entrepreneur who started donating huge sums of money for various projects. He was caught laundering money for the Colombian drug cartel. He dragged down with him a Frum lawyer who spent time in jail and lost his license to practice law. The businessman is now in the witness protection program. Both he and his lawyer lost their wives and children. They divorced their husbands. Why did this businessman do that? Why did the lawyer help him? They obviously had enough values to be observant of Mitzvos Bain Adam L’Makom. What gave him the idea that it was OK to launder drug money? What gave the lawyer the idea that it is OK to somehow cover it up?

Why are religious people acting this way? Whose Hashkafos are they following? Whose Psak do they rely on? These are people who are sometimes amongst the most prominent of their community. They are people who are often scrupulous to buy only Mehadrin food, drink only Chalav Yisroel, or buy the most Mehudar Esrog. And they are often big Baalei Tzedaka.

Why is it so easy for them to just steal from the government or in some cases even defraud totally innocent non-Jews?

I think part of the answer can be found right here in the comments section in portions of this blog. Whenever the is a discussion of these issues there are always those who try and rationalize or even excuse the behavior. Or who try and actually give sources for it in Halacha!

What’s worse is when a renowned rabbinic leader refuses to publicly condemn such behavior and explains that that there is some Halachic basis for doing so. This all serves to encourage some people to lie, cheat, and steal if they think they can get away with it.

Hence… we have Minyanim 3 times a day in federal prisons. And we have religious social organizations demanding “criminal rights!” …kosher food for “religious” criminals in prison… And they are successful.

How wonderful! We can now be proud that we have been able to provide for our Frum prisoner element. What a Kiddush HaShem!


* Unfortunatley I no longer have the URL but if anyone knows it I will insert it into this post.

Crusader Stern

Once again I am saddened by the verbal attack against someone who I both admire and respect... someone who I know to be God fearing, and a Talmid Chacham… someone who has done nothing but make one Kiddush HaShem after another.

I have never personally met Rabbi Gil Student. But I know him. We have been involved for many years in an e-mail list and have exchanged views on just about every subject known to Judaism. He is of course the publisher of Yashar Books and writes what is probably the most informative and popular Orthodox blog on the internet. And he was severely attacked in a letter to the editor in the Jewish Press by one Dr. Yaakov Stern, a self styled crusader for the right. Here is what he had to say:

“The reader should not be deluded. While the Slifkins and Students of the world claim the backing of respected rabbis, their true loyalties lie with the pedagogues in our so-called institutions of higher learning”

Dr. Stern is a frequent letter writer in the Jewish Press and I sometimes agree with his comments and other times disagree. None of his comments have been all that memorable however. Until now.

To imply that Rabbi Student is trying to delude people... to imply that he is lying about his Poskim... to say that Rabbi Student is loyal to heretics... is so way beyond the pale that I’m not even sure a simple request for Mechila is enough! This fellow is in serious need of Teshuva.

One can have legitimate differences of opinion on the issues tackled in the books written by Rabbi Slifkin. And as outrageous and unfair as some of the attacks have been against him, no one has ever attacked Rabbi Student himself. Even those who side with the right realize that R. Gil has only been standing up for justice and righteousness in this controversy… and the right to consider the views of Rabbi Slifkin within the boundaries of Torah Judaism… views that until banned, were unchallenged and vetted by respected Roshei Yeshiva and Poskim who put their imprimatur in writing in his books… views that have the backing of some of the greatest religious minds in Jewish history... and views similar to many other works written by contemporary religious figures. Whether Rabbi Student himself holds these views is not germane. In any case, R. Gil’s open mind on these issues does not mean that his views are a simple cloning of Rabbi Slifkin’s views. But that doesn’t matter to Dr. Stern at all. The mere fact that he defnends Rabbi Slifkin's right to believe as he does is enough to tar and feather him. He just considers them heretical birds of a feather!

Rabbi Student has stood up for Rabbi Slifkin and has courageously published and distributed his books on the advice of his Poskim. …Poskim who, knowing the character of Rabbi Student have impeccable credentials. The slanderous way in which he was attacked by Dr. Stern show exactly what his character is like. The only word I can think of is a Yiddish one: It is Mius. It is disgusting. It is uncalled for. And it is evil!

If Dr. Stern is the best example of the community that he strongly defends then they truly do have serious problems. Much greater than I thought. They need to do a real Cheshbon HaNefseh. All of them!

Dr. Stern: Shame on you! You are an embarrassment to our people. It behooves you to ask for Mechila from Rabbi Student before the Yom HaDin approaches. And then do some serious Teshuva for the harm words like yours have done to the Torah world.

Aliyah

Aliyah. That is a wonderful goal that we should all have. We should all be thinking about doing that as soon as we are able. But is it a good idea for everyone? I have always maintained that this should not be the automatic assumption. Yes, Yishuv Ha’atretz, living in the land of Israel is an important Mitzvah. One can only fulfill certain Mitzvos there: Mitzvos HaTeluyos Ba Aretz (Laws pertaining strictly in the land of Israel). And what a wonderful lifestyle it is living with one’s own people in one’s own land. The Gemara tells us, “Avira. D’Ara Machkim”. The very air of Israel makes one wiser! Even general mitzvah observance is almost always on a higher level in Israel then in the diaspora, no matter what segment of Orthodoxy one belongs to.

For those of us living in the in America, we can only imagine what it must be like sociologically… virtually everyone you come in contact with is Jewish. You are the majority. Religious holidays are celebrated as national holidays. It is Shabbos for everyone… Pesach for everyone… Sukkos for everyone.

It is your people running the show, whether it is in government, the arts, social agencies or… whatever. And then there is the pride of living in a country that is so advanced for the region, technologically… in the sciences, or in military prowess. And it is a country with western democratic values to boot. The very same type of values we Americans are all accustomed to.

So why am I not there? Well I should be, but I realize that even with all those pluses, there is one major drawback… the cultural gap. And that gap is not a small one. Aside from the very obvious language barrier, there are a great many other cultural barriers (…Types of music, types of food, types of sports). The economic system is different. Tax policies are different. The government bureaucracy is different (and almost unbearable even to native Israelis). And the cultural attitudes of native Israelis are different.

Life in Israel even with all those western values and culture that Israel has in common with the US is still radically different than it is in the US. Israeli is after all a Middle Eastern country and just through osmosis alone a good part of that culture is Middle Eastern. Like the food, for example… highly spiced according to Middle Eastern tradition. So I opted not to make Aliyah. I know myself too well. The hardships I anticipated are just too much for me. I am a creature of habit and I don’t know if I could handle the culture shock. I love going there. I love being there. But I also love coming back home to Chicago. Yes, I am a flawed human being. But in most cases a highly motivated adult can overcome these obstacles, although it usually proves to be much harder than originally thought.

There is an article in Ha’aretz that discusses a family that has recently made Aliyah. They live in the highly American enclave of Ramat Bet Shemesh. But I get the distinct impression from the story that this family has asked for trouble in their decision to move to Israel. They have 5 children. Three are ages 11, 13, and 16. It was not children’s choice to move. They were basically forced… against their will to leave all their friends and the environment they were comfortable in and move to a place where they knew no one, did not know the language and now have to deal with a culture radically different than what they have thus far grown up in.

I hope I am wrong but this family, although with the best of intentions, has created a monster, only they probably don’t know it yet. The largest percentage of Frum “Dropouts in Israel come from this demographic… a family who make Aliyah with teenage children. We all know where many good intentions lead and this may be the case here.

Don’t get me wrong. I hope they make it and I admire their devotion and sacrifice in making Aliyah. But the price may be too high. One must be careful and really think things through before making a move like that. One must consult with experts, and other people who have already made Aliyah to determine whether this will not harm their families.

There have been many parents who have regretted their decision after their teenage sons or daughters have become “Kikaristim”. This is what Frum teen dropsouts are called who end up just “hanging out” rebelliously at Jerusalem’s Kikar Tzion (Zion Square). I hope this doesn’t end up happening to this family, but if this excerpt from their son is accurate, “Yehuda, 16, says that he was forced onto a plane by his parents and doesn't understand why he had to move to Israel in the first place.”… I am worried.

I am told that Rav Elyashiv has advised his own American Charedi constituancy that if they are considering making Aliyah, they should do so either before the children are 6 years old, or after the children are out of the house. Otherwise they should stay put.He truly is a wise man.

Kavod HaRav

I write the with a heavy heart after reading a comment by a poster with the pseudonym, Bari .

I am truly not qualified. My esteem for Rabbi Dr. Joseph B. Soloveitchik, affectionately known simply as the Rav by his Talmidim, is near boundless.

I say “not qualified” because I have not studied directly under him nor have I studied all of his works. In fact I only met him once, at the wedding of his niece in Chicago. But my esteem for him is still great because of what I did read and because of the few amazing lectures I heard on tape… and the general information I have about him. And it gives me no peace to see the continuous criticism of him by members of the right, even the self described moderate right like Bari. His criticism was generated by my previous post on Mesorah Publication’s refusal to publish anything under its Artscroll banner written by the Rav.

Let me begin with why I think the Rav was one of the most important figures of the twentieth century, both in the Torah world and in general although I am certain that I will not do him justice.

Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik’s knowledge of Torah had few if any peers. In that sense alone, he qualifies for the title Gadol. His dedication to Torah was complete and unflinching. He was a highly principled individual who never compromised his views and who freely expressed them. He spent the vast majority of his life learning and teaching Torah to thousands of disparate individuals.

When it came to the world of Orthodox Jewish philosophic thought, he had absolutely no peers in his lifetime. (And I include Dr. Eliezer Berkovits, a professor of Jewish philosophy whom I had the privilege of studying under for four years.) His masterpiece, “Halakhic Man” I believe truly expresses the essence of Torah Judaism.

How great was his Torah knowledge? Rav Baruch Ber Leibovitz, whom many consider to be the Talmid Muvhak of the the Rav’s grandfather, R. Chaim, once said about the Rav that his knowledge of Meshches Gittin was greater than his, even though Rav Baruch Ber was perhaps… the…acknowledged expert in Mesches Gittin. But those who learned by and from the Rav didn’t need Rav Baruch Ber to tell them that. They knew all by themselves how great his Torah knowledge was. I’m sure that his Talmidim, Rav Hershel Shachter and Rav Aaron Lichtenstein, great geniuses and great Talmidei Chachamin in their own right could easily testify to that. As could the many others, not the least of which was his younger brother, Rav Aaron. In fact, much of his Torah is being allowed in “through the back door” of many of the finest right wing Yeshivos.

His positive attitude to secular studies is self evident. And not only did he produce Gedolim in Torah, he produced Gedolim in philosophy like Rav Shalom Carmy. And his impact on the world of general philosophic thought has been acknowledged in Academia as well and his works are studied world-wide.

He was a mentor to many and an example to all. His broad scope reached and still reaches many diverse elements of Orthodoxy. And he knew to whom he was speaking when he Paskined for them. So that Rav Hershel Shachter and Rabbi Saul Berman could each speak with confidence that they were representing the Rav’s views, even though at times views expressed in his name were perceived as contradictory. And this is where Bari’s criticism comes in.

In his referenced post written in May of this year Bari tries to explain why the right wing has trouble with the Rav. His criticism revolves around the many who claim the mantle of the Rav’s Hashkafa. He says that the Rav’s views were either distorted by his Talmidim on the left, or worse he says, those were actually is views. But this is not the only problem the right has with the Rav. More about that later.

How can one explain the dichotomies spoken in his name? How can one have respect for one whose views seem so unclear and contradictory? If one gives it any thought at all one will realize the answer. It is really not that difficult to understand. Any Posek will Paskin differently for different people. A lot depends on where one is coming from, where one is holding, and where one is going. What may be permissible in one circumstance may be forbidden in others. Psak can also be subject to interpretation, especially when it is a complex one. And often one can express a disapproving attitude while never-the-less allowing something in certain circumstances that is Me-Ikkar HaDin permissible. There is also the possibility that he was just plain misunderstood in some cases.

There are so many ways to understand the disparities spoken in the Rav’s name without disparaging him for it. Only a person with an agenda or an apologist for the right wing would use this against him. The claim that other Poskim were not disparately and contradictorily quoted is not a valid claim. First of all it isn’t true. Second of all most Poskim Paskin Shailos for a much more homogenous group. It would be very unlikely for a Modern Orthodox Jew to ask a Charedi Posek about Women’s Tefilah Groups or whether a woman can wear a Talis for Davening, for example. And in any case the Rav was not primarily a Posek. Though he did Paskin for his Talmidim, this was not his focus.

He was not a Posek like Rav Moshe Feinstein who was primarily that, and wrote Teshuvos in his own magnum opus, the Igros Moshe. If one wishes to cite Rav Moshe as one whose Teshuvos are consistent and not contradictory in contra-distinction to the Rav, again… it is an unfair comparison. The Rav did not write Teshuvos per se. He had no Shailos and Teshuvos Sefer. He Paskined for individuals when he was asked. That is a big difference. Had the Rav written a Halacha Sefer, one can be assured that there would have been no contradictions in it.

So much for Bari’s reason for the right wing lack of Kavod.

So, why does the right so reject the Rav? It is a combination of all of the reasons I have praised him for like his studying philosophy as a young man and the accusation that he spent too much time dwelling on it. …And his positive attitude about secular studies. And some of his left wing Talmidim who do in fact speak in his name, correctly or not, in ways that are anathema to the right. So they judge him and so they attack him for it.

If one really wants to know exactly why the right so rejects him let them read the Jewish Observer obituary. It is all there. But I believe it is mostly his association with Yeshiva University. He was identified with it. And even though there were other great Gedolim who taught there, like Rav Dovid Lipshitz, they were always given a pass because they did not take on the mantle of leadership of the institution the way the Rav did. Nor did they have any of the other “P’gamim” I mentioned.

I end this post with the same heavy heart that I started. A man who I consider to be one of the greatest people of the twentieth century continues to be considered in the Charedi world… Treif by some or at least Krum (twisted Hashkafically) by others. And this is one of the primary reasons in our day which prevents any hope of Achdus.

K'hal Publications

Hihurim has announced the publication of a book that blog owner and publisher of Yashar Books, Rabbi Gil student did not publish. It is a Yom Kippur Machzor, with a complete commentary by Rabbi Joseph B. Solovetchik adapted from his teachings and edited by Dr. Arnold Lustiger. It was noted in the post that this volume was published by the internationally famous publishing house, K'hal.

That’s right K'hal, you know… the famous publishers of… Yep! This is their only publication. So, what’s my problem?

I don't know. Maybe it is my basically cynical nature, but the first thing that occurred to me upon seeing the picture of the book in Rabbi Student’s blog was how strikingly similar to Artscroll the cover looked and that it wasn’t Artscroll that published it. The fact is, I believe that Artscroll (or more accurately Mesorah Publications) would have never published it.

Although Artscroll has mentioned a few comments by Rav Soloveitchik in its commentary section of the Stone Chumash, that is about as far as they would are willing to go it seems to even acknowledge his existence. I cannot prove my assertions about this but I would be willing to bet money that if this were presented to Artscroll they would have rejected it. In no way can they be seen to endorse a man that the Moetzes of Agudah had problems with as was clearly demonstrated by their obituary in the Agudah mouthpiece, The Jewish Observer.

You know... it is really sad that a successful enterprise like Artscroll has to cater to this mentality. Just think how great it would have been had Artscroll been the one to publish it. Think of the unity that might have generated.

Interfaith Dialogue

There is an interesting story in the Jerusalem Post. Apparently the two chief rabbis of the State of Israel have scheduled to meet with the Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams (The Church of England). The purpose of the visit I suppose is to try and improve relations with this group which had announced divestiture with firms doing business with Israel while it still “illegally” occupied the West Bank. I do not want to get into the issue of the immorality of the decision by the Anglican church. Suffice it to say that it has been condemned by former archbishop, George Carey, who said in response that he "ashamed to be an Anglican and that the decsion was overturned in March by the Church's Ethical Investment Advisory Group who voted unanimously against the decision.

My purpose here is to point out the nature of the visit as understood by Anglicans. From the article:

“It is also hoped it will lead to better understanding and a strengthening of interfaith relationships in the Middle East and beyond.”

“The Council of Christians and Jews (CCJ) also welcomed the meeting. A spokesman for the interfaith organization said: "We commend the Church of England and His Grace the Archbishop of Canterbury for their initiative and foresight in bringing this meeting to fruition.”

"CCJ acknowledges the determination of the Archbishop and Lambeth Palace to further positive Jewish-Christian relations, bringing about a process for the ongoing improvement in understanding and dialogue.

"For 65 years, CCJ has been privileged to work with both traditions and can testify to the enrichment of all as a result.

"The meeting is a historic milestone that acknowledges the contribution of the Jewish faith to the economic, cultural and educational life of the UK as well as to Christianity's understanding of its Jewish roots. The meeting will affirm the centrality of future dialogue in a world of conflict and political tension."

“…and may this visit strengthen the bond of interfaith fellowship and celebration of the common Biblical, theological and moral heritage we share with the Jewish people,"

It should be noted that Rav Metzger is the hand chosen Ashkenazi Cheif Rabbi by Rav Elyashiv. It should further be pointed out that the feeling is mutual… that is, that Rav Metzger considers Rav Elyashiv to be his mentor.

This is quite astounding. It suggests that perceptions of interfaith dialogue which is anathematic to Torah is not an impediment to having a public meeting with members of a faith which if practiced by Jews is deemed to be Avodah Zara. Rav Elyashiv seems to approve of it. It doesn’t matter if that interfaith dialogue is not the goal of rabbis Metzger and Amar.

The argument made by the rabbinic leadership against Rabbi Yosef Reinman when he stood on the same podium with a Reform rabbi was that merely standing on the same podium with him is Assur because of tacit endorsement. And in that case it was clearly stated by both sides that Orthodoxy does not accept trhe views of Reform as legitimate. There was never an iota of interfaith dialogue hinted at. Yet here in the case of the meeting with leaders of the Anglican Church that it is precisely how they seem to view it.

Some people have argued that it is OK to meet with Christian leaders as opposed to heretical Jewish ones. It is not the same as meeting with Reform rabbis. The difference, they say, is that no one will mistake Jewish leaders of endorsing Christian views. People will, however, think Jewish leaders are endorsing Reform rabbis in a similar public circumstance since they are Jewish rabbis too. One might further argue that in the context of joining in areas of common concern in the public arena: such condemning the homosexual pride parade in Jerusalem… that joining together with Chrsitans is OK.

But what is happeneing here isn’t a joint condemnation of an event. The Anglicans see this as some sort of religious dialogue. Some people may come to see this as some sort of endorsement of Christianity as a brother religion.

Or… maybe I’m wrong. Maybe interfaith dialogue with Christians is not Assur after all. Maybe Rav Elyashiv Paskins that it’s OK to participate with Christians in an interfaith dialogue? Maybe Rav Elyashiv thinks it is a good idea to explore what Judaism and Christianity have I common.

And maybe there is such a thing as the tooth fairy.